On Friday, the Hamilton Mixtape dropped. Andrea listened to it almost immediately, emailed Gabs to say “excellent” and soon insisted on getting online to discuss this historic event. The chat transcript is available for your edification and for the good of future generations below. It has been edited for length.

INTRO: “the best three song run”

Gabs Roman

What were your expectations for this?

Andrea Corbin

I’d already heard the songs that were released early, and otherwise had vaguely seen the tracklist once

so in the end my expectations were “Oh heck, that’s happening? it dropped? SWEET SURPRISE”

Gabs

I also sort of forgot it existed.

But unlike you, I didn’t listen to any of the stuff. I guess I wanted to not get the preview? No explanation there, really.

I expected it to be basically covers and when I started listening I was like, “Oh hey! Not all covers.” Which is an aspect of it I really like

Listening to “Congratulations” again and you’re right, it’s really one of the better tracks

Andrea

I love it a lot

do you want to go off on it now or do you want to go through from the beginning?

Gabs

Oh, might as well talk about it now

First, Angelica and Eliza should just get their own freaking musicals, so there’s that

Andrea

co-signed

How much should Congratulations have been kept in, on a scale from “Eh” to “LIN-MANUEL YOU FOOL”?

Gabs

It should have been kept in, “Come on, dude, these ladies are the best part of the whole thing”

because every time I listen to the soundtrack and get toward the end, I’m always like, “Fuck, Eliza is so AWESOME”

Andrea

Right? I have such love and respect for her!

To get off-mixtape and on-book, that line “do you want to see what i’m proudest of? ….this ORPHANAGE”

Gabs

‘Oh, you know, I spent 50 years fighting against slavery and raising hundreds of children’

And she basically single handedly held onto his legacy, so he owes her all the props

Andrea

Straight from Eliza’s very existence to Chernow’s magic typewriter

I assume he writes on a typewriter, since he’s writing historical books

Gabs

That’s how all historians work

I’m using morse code

Andrea

I’m glad to have this confirmed

okay, so when I heard Congratulations, my main thought was “YESSS ANGELICA. DRAG HIM.

in case you were wondering

Gabs

He effing deserves that shit, so yes

The dissing at the beginning is perfect

Gabs

And there’s something about the tone and even like the tempo that sets it apart from a lot of the songs before it

Andrea

I just remembered it comes directly after Say Yes to This can we TALK about Say YES to THIS

Gabs

YESSS

I love Jill Scott anyway, so I was excited about that one

Andrea

loved the flipped perspective

it floored me when I realized what was happening

Gabs

There are a couple things about the musical I could criticize and one of them is that the affair doesn’t give Maria Reynolds her due

And I wish it did because the actress who plays her has the greatest voice

Andrea

Jasmine Cephas Jones is AMAZING

Gabs

But, damn, yeah, when I hear “Say No to This” I’m always like “YESSSS”

And I was very happy Jill Scott produced the same feeling in me

I’d just like to say I’d like to propose “Say Yes to This” “Congratulates” and “Burn” as the best three song run on the mixtape

COVERS: “I wanted nothing but spins”

Andrea

Burn was almost my favorite cover, until I hit John Legend

Gabs

Might have to say that the second half is doing more for me than the first

Andrea

hmm!

all covers have the risk of “okay but why not go listen to the original”

but Andra Day and John Legend change the style enough or just have such a presence in their voices that I love ’em.

but

there was one cover

Well, let me ask you: what did you think of the covers overall?

Gabs

I was about to say, “I can tell you the worst cover”

Andrea

DO TELL

Gabs

Because, come on, Jimmy Fallon

Andrea

KLJSDFLKSDJFLKJ

Gabs

He did not nail that

Andrea

CONFESSION: I have not been able to listen to that whole track

part of it is just being DONE with Fallon

part of it is that idiotic intro, like, seriously

But if this is supposed to be a joke performance, then UGH get OUT

if it’s not, and it’s just bad, then what the hell?

Gabs

If I want a joke performance, I’ll hire Jack Black, thank you very much

Andrea

If I want a joke performance, I’ll go look for the pod stashed in my apartment containing my real body because I’ve become someone I’m not

Gabs

As far as the other covers I thought they were decent but none of them were like “WOW” for me

I laughed out loud when I saw Regina Spektor and Ben Folds on the list, because of course they would cover that song

Andrea

Yeah, most obvious and only song they could, really

it was nice? But I actually liked the version by Chance the Rapper better

Gabs

I agree. I would’ve preferred to hear them put a spin on it

Because once I heard all the other spins, then I wanted nothing but spins

Andrea

yeah, when I hear a cover, I want the artist to do something with it, usually

I think straight tribute toe-the-line cover is nice often, but… why would i listen to it

for example: Usher

it was a really nice song! He’s a great singer! No arguments!

but

come

ON

I could be listening to LESLIE ODOM JR

Gabs

I think “My Shot” and “Wrote My Way Out” work because they do put new lyrics and a stamp on it

Andrea

those are more like remixes

Gabs

Right. When I saw the titles I was expecting covers and was pleasantly surprised they weren’t

Andrea

John Trumbull/My Shot/Wrote My Way Out was going to be my contender for best 3 song run, except John Trumbull is barely a song

Gabs

ahhh

Maybe best dude three song run

Andrea

But I really enjoyed My Shot, and the verses in Wrote My Way Out touched my heart and slayed me a little

especially LMM

like bookish bullied puerto rican kid? gosh, I don’t know anyone who could possibly relate

Gabs

ohhhhh damn

that’s your life!

Andrea

arguably! arguably not! but enough resonance for me to love it

I liked that song a lot in general because the story of people striving to get out of the bad situation they were born into, or stumbled into, is something that I gravitate toward a LOT a lot

not only striving but successful

Gabs

I always really appreciate people writing and reading their way out of situations

Like, use your brains to get better! What a great message

Andrea

in lin’s verse he has a line about a beacon

the idea that this combo of ambition and talent and writing can help you claw your way to a better place, and that maybe you can leave those words behind to help others find the way too

oh my heart

DEMOS: “More Angelica For a Better World”

Andrea

So, of Congratulations, An Open Letter, and Cabinet Battle #3, if you could choose one to get put back in the musical…

Gabs

An Open Letter = A+

What I really like about Cabinet Battle #3 was it really addressed the fact that a lot of the characters are slaveholders

and in addition to wanting more ladies in the musical, I always wished they addressed that some of the characters are slaveholders more

like, Washington is a great character, but in CB#3 when he turns Hamilton down and you KNOW it’s because he has slaves?

But then do you have to make the musical like an hour longer to really get that issue teased out in full

I’d say probably Congratulations

followed by An Open Letter

because I’m very torn about CB#3

Andrea

I would agree!

because More Angelica For a Better World

and honestly, any song that gives me more of Alexander’s unfettered mouth is OK by me, and An Open Letter is UNFETTERED

Gabs

“Sit down, John, you fat mother fucker” is one of my favorite lines of the whole musical

Andrea

but all the build-up TO that line makes it feel so much better

and the sheer wordplay, the flow in that song makes my heart SO DAMN HAPPY

you aspire to my level, you inspire to malevolence

Gabs

that was my fave part of CB#3, the reference to Jefferson hemming and hawing

Andrea

I love the founders (and adjacent ladies) just DRAGGING each other

slam him, alex

Gabs

it’s really great to see characters that are so normally revered just being straight up dicks

I am pro Founding Fathers being turned into real humans

Andrea

yeah!

…it does bother me to think too hard about the fact that it’s really only here that they’re popularly made human again, when POC are playing them

I think it makes sense and is utterly unsurprising that a POC creator would be the one to do it

and of course it’s awesome to have a cast like this, it does a lot of things that I love

but that overanalyzing part of my brain went “yeah sure now we see their flaws, it’s fine to bring ’em down to the ground if they’re not white anymore”

Gabs

Right, like the white versions of them still get to be the dudes on the pedestals

I can definitely see that. But who gave an eff about Alexander Hamilton before this musical (besides me, obvs)

Andrea

I think a lot of people knew that he was America’s Hottest Revolutionary

Gabs

He was super fine

I’m not surprised he was popular with the ladies

Andrea

I loved how after the musical got popular suddenly all these historical primary sources were going around, like, TUMBLR to prove that E V E R Y O N E wrote about how beautiful A. Ham was

“he had the most striking eyes!”

Gabs

Also, just look at a 10 dollar bill

Andrea

man was a babe

Valley Forge: Opinions?

Gabs

So much of it got repurposed into the musical itself

which made me go, “that was cut for a reason”

Andrea

the delivery on the demo was so different!

in the final version, those “outrun, outlast” lines are more pumped up

a: it plays better on stage

b: it focuses on the heat of the battle, getting amped up to fight and survive

BUT

the demo version also works really well for me as a song. 

instead of pumped up, you get a focus on the desperation and weariness as soldiers were freezing and dying, the way everything looked so hopeless and then it turned around and it WASN’T

basically this song makes me patriotic about the founding of our country and I’m very confused about that

Gabs

I read 1776 around the same time I started listening to Hamilton and it’s a good reminder that the beginning of that war was awful, and Washington was getting slapped around and basically hanging on by the skin of his teeth

It’s also a good reminder that everyone was basically freezing to death and miserable

so in terms of capturing the spirit of real history? Yes. 

also, it reminded me that they called George Washington his Excellency which is always amusing to me

did you have to watch a documentary in high school about Washington called “The Man Who Wouldn’t Be King”?

Andrea

noooo

Gabs

the point of it was that Washington could have become king if he had wanted to 

At the end it talks about how a bunch of veterans of the war were going to start some shit because they weren’t getting paid and Washington went to appeal to them personally

and he had to put on his glasses to read his statement and it made everyone realize he was human too (that he had to put glasses on) and everyone was all crying and decided to do him a solid

and my friends and I thought that was both hilarious and nuts. Like, he had sort of developed godhood even when he was still alive

COVERS AGAIN: “Another shrug from me”

Andrea

so I may get some hate for this

Gabs

I’m prepared to hate you

Andrea

I’m furious with Kelly Clarkson (not really)

I cannot beLIEVE that someone made me feel NOTHING during It’s Quiet Uptown

Gabs

ooh, I was wondering if I was the only monster who didn’t love her version of it

Andrea

I’ve had the original come on accidentally on shuffle and teared up a little so Clarkson can get OUT OF MY HOUSE

Gabs

For that matter, I like Alicia Keys, but I found That Would Be Enough not that interesting

Andrea

I am 100% sure I’ve listened to it several times and have 0 memory of it

Gabs

which is partially why I think the Say Yes to This, Congratulations, Burn run is so appealing to me

There’s a chunk of ballads and you’re like EH

and then it turns itself around real fast

Andrea

I feel like Immigrants was this buoy in the middle trying to support that stretch

and I mean it’s GREAT.

I think a lot of people are going to be saying “omg Snow tha Product is my new fave”

Thoughts on Washingtons By Your Side?

Gabs

I like that it’s kind of like its own song that happens to use some of the same notes from the original

Andrea

just takes “washington(s)” and runs with it

Gabs

That’s one of things that impressed me about some of the tracks on this album

it shows that really creative and improvisational side

how you can use something as inspiration but make something completely different

which is why some of the covers feel like a let down

OUTRO: “some more good shit from him”

Gabs

I’m excited that LMM is so young and talented

because we’re going to get some more good shit from him

Do you think you’re likely to listen to this as much as Hamilton?

and which song are you likely to listen to the most?

Andrea

as it turns out Hamilton the musical is really long, so I don’t listen to all of it that often

I have a “up-tempo put away your laundry” Hamilton playlist that I do listen to a lot, so likely I will just add some songs from this

Gabs

it is soooo long

but I totally listen to it front to back

Andrea

To answer your other question about Top Tracks

That’s different from what stands out as my favorites. I’ll want to step back and LISTEN* to An Open Letter and Congratulations

*feebly sing along

while History Has Its Eyes on you and Say Yes to This feel supremely listenable, like, throw those on an unrelated playlist and listen the heck out of ’em

BUT there are a few on here that are KILLER gym tracks

in case you were wondering: my shot/wrote my way out/immigrants

Gabs

I foresee I lot of listening to the three consecutive lady songs

and Jill Scott in particular like a thousand times

Andrea

yep, conclusion: Jill Scott is great

Gabs

That is my life’s conclusion

Andrea

oh no I’m listening to Congratulations again